Dr. Kent Gustavson: Coming to
you from the primordial goo.

This is Man vs. Slop. I'm Kent
Gustavson.

Aleck McCathie: I'm Aleck
McCathie.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: And we're
gonna talk to you, if you're

listening to us, about something
or we'll speak with you. I don't

know. That's that's kind of a
weird way to talk to a podcast

audience. People always say
that. I mean, I just did.

But I feel like, yeah, what does
it mean to to talk to somebody

through a podcast?

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. I mean, I
guess we're in a lot of people's

cars or or living rooms or
computer rooms right now.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. I'm
just I'm just trying to this is

this is just this is proof of
life at the start of an episode

about AI to to hopefully make
sure that AI didn't create that

weird beginning to the episode.

Aleck McCathie: True. True.
Well, yeah, I I I don't know how

else to prove that we're human
just by audio. It's kind of a

conundrum, I guess.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know. So audio doesn't

do it. Video doesn't do it.

From what I'm hearing out there
in AI land, it's gonna start

getting weirder. I mean, I I the
the from what I'm hearing and

reading, the thing that
terrifies me most yeah. Let's

start with that. What terrifies
us most? I'll say the thing

that's that makes me most
nervous is that AI can

manipulate people, humans.

We don't need a hacker to, like,
call up someone we love who

happens to be elderly and and
trick them out of their bank

account stuff. Now it can be,
you know, like, oh, got a great

opportunity for you, or, oh,
we're we're holding your your

grand kid hostage, or, like, you
know, there's so many things

that AI can do on its own, and
that that makes me a little bit

nervous.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. I I
definitely agree. The autonomy

that AI has now I mean, I'm sure
everyone at this point has heard

one of the stories of AI
emailing somebody without being

prompted to do it to, like, ask
them to do a task for them

because they're being tested or
because the person who ran the

prompt or owns the model told
them to do something. So they

they autonomously reached out to
somebody they thought could help

with the task, which is kinda
spooky. But also another thing

that happened this week, on the
same sort of note is that

there's the first autonomous AI
malware where apparently there's

it's called oh, jeez.

I'm not even sure what it's
called, but Cisco Talos, I

guess, disclosed that they found
this, and it's like an AI that

doesn't actually need any humans
behind it. It can just sort of

do its own thing, and it's out
there right now. It's kinda

spooky.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: I love that.
And and at the same time, this

show is about thinking about,
vanilla AI because, it's so I I

shouldn't I shouldn't say that.
I love vanilla actually, but we

think of vanilla as plain, and
vanilla is in everything, you

know. And so, I'm we're so
overwhelmed all across the web,

like, I can't I can't even open
LinkedIn, except to maybe

message people or see actually
check on certain individuals I'm

looking for. But when I look at
the content on LinkedIn, it is

so just, AI driven.

It it's it's turned into a taste
that's, like, disgusting. You

know? It's it's it's like
getting your food in in

Styrofoam.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. Yeah. I I
don't frequent many websites,

but I do browse Reddit as, like,
maybe one of my main sources for

just news and stuff like that.
And, you know, I don't really

read the comments, but it seems
that every thread has a lot of

responses that seem very canned.
I mean, it's the same on YouTube

videos too, and all these people
are getting called out usually

too.

Usually, there there'll be,
like, a response that seems just

a little bit too botty, I guess,
or too AI, and it usually ends

up with a lot of people being
like, oh, it's it's a bot

response. It's an AI response.
But it's it's everywhere.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: And so so,
and we can go back to some of

the headlines and things in a
second, but I'm curious what

your thoughts are. You know,
we're both in the writing,

publishing industry, and writing
is important to us. Where where

is the line? It it seems like
everybody's trying to figure

out, every publisher's trying to
figure out where the line is

between, what you're allowed to
use AI for and what you aren't

allowed to. And in education, of
course, it's like, are our

children gonna be using AI for?

Of course, they need to use it.
If they don't, they're not going

to keep up. A lot of our clients
who are older think that they've

reinvented the wheel, right, and
they're using AI and they're

like, look what I just built!
And it's like, yeah, yeah, I see

what you just built. And so it's
what yeah.

What what what should we what
should we be using this this

this stuff for? And AI isn't the
term because AI applies to,

like, a 100,000,000 things.
Right?

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. Well, I
guess it's really not the term

anymore. We're supposed to call
it superintelligence now, aren't

we? Isn't that what Trump said?

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. Well,
and and so just like with

humans, there are a lot of
superintelligent humans, and

there are a lot of super
intelligent AIs, but all AI all

AI together, I would not call
super intelligent, you know?

It's like the one in a million
AI that breaks out. Now that

that might be super intelligent,
but I wouldn't call it super

intelligence to the whole
category personally. But I I

understand that he's trying to,
like, distance the from the the

artificial term, the fake.

Right? He he dislikes that word
fake. So and and I what it was

funny is I I don't have much in
common with Trump. Let's let's

let's say that. I his statement
about artificial intelligence, I

gotta say, when I heard that I
thought, Oh, I was thinking that

a couple of weeks ago.

Because it's not artificial,
it's here. Artificial

intelligence is here, it's in
our pocket, we're using it, it's

part of our everyday life. Not
artificial. It's very real. I

wouldn't

call it

super, but
it's an interesting point, that

he might have picked up from
somebody else smart. Who knows?

Aleck McCathie: Fair. And to go
back to your point though, like

what we should use it for, where
the guidelines are, I mean, I

think it's a good thing that a
lot of these companies are

beginning to adopt, you know,
third party assessors just in

the development of AI. But I
think that we need to think

more, I guess, bigger picture
when it comes to AI. Like, it

would be crazy if they weren't,
like, implementing AI training

or teaching into even, like, the
elementary level of school just

so the kids know how to use it
as a tool or or learn the very

basics. I mean, I had that sort
of schooling integrated just to

learn the most basics of like an
old, like, Windows 93 computer

or whatever it might have been
in my school library back in the

day.

But I mean, as a tool, there's
certainly a lot of things that

it can do for people by default
that are time saving and

objectively good or, you know,
like the what I would say is the

next step in general help and
being like a productive tool

beyond what your apps might have
done on for like on your phone a

few years ago. Like, a weird
random story that I actually

just read is a guy used like his
AI as a tool that he trained to

like help book him appointments
and stuff like that. And, this

was in Australia and it was
actually on a model that was

like an older one, like Opus
4.7. And he asked to book him

into a gym, but the gym was like
completely full. So the AI

actually took autonomy and,
like, hacked into the gym's sort

of, like, reservations and stuff
like that and just deleted

somebody so that he could get
in.

So even if you're using it for
the most basic sort of benign,

you know, tasks, it can still go
wonky and be a bit spooky.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. And
that's and that's where I'd

almost get back to that thing we
talked about the last time.

Based on that and based on I
heard this week that a six year

old broke the record for Rubik's
cube. I I'm pretty sure that's

right. It's fun to have said
even if it's not right.

I heard it somewhere. We'll do
some fact checking and put it in

the show notes, but a six year
old breaks the Rubik's cube

record. Okay. What else can six
year olds do? 12 year olds, 11

year olds, 14 year olds, they
can hack things like their local

school, like the local gym, like
the right?

What do they become when they go
from a 13 year old genius, a

super intelligent kid, to the 33
year old twenty years from now.

What are they gonna be doing?
And that's that's the world that

I'm fascinated by. Like, where
are we going? Because this is

this is like we're talking like
like Cornerstone.

This is the Cornerstone of the
New World. Where are we going?

And you might even say, like,
the Internet was the Cornerstone

of this. And the next one might
be quantum. Like, who knows?

But it's fascinating to see how,
can you say wackily? How wackily

fast, human beings are are doing
this acceleration. And then I

understand why the the people at
the heads of these companies are

saying their spirituality
involved, and there's maybe,

like, the death of the whole
race involved because, you know,

are we doing the lemmings thing,
or are we doing something that's

smart for our, for our species?

Aleck McCathie: That yeah.
That's that's a lot to think

about. I mean, again, drives me
back to the thought of like,

okay, I grew up with a computer
more or less, like, not when I

was a a young child, but there's
certainly people in our

generation who probably know
everything there is to know

about Windows. Like, you know,
they don't have virus

protection. If they have
something weird with their

computer, they can go into,
like, the rejects and, like, do

all, like, the weird.

They just know it inside and out
because they grew up with it and

they didn't have another way to
fix things besides doing it

themselves. It's interesting to
think about, like, the

generation of kids who are
growing up now with maybe

Claude, you know, from the age
of six. Like, a lot of people

right now are doing vibe coding
and, you know, kind of lazily

using prompts to output Slop,
but there's gotta be a

generation of people who really,
really learn how to use these

tools and, like, really get
prompts and, like, really get

to, like, the I don't know, get
to the roots of how to

manipulate this tool and use it
in ways that people just don't

realize it can be used yet.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: So let's
talk about generations for a

second, because I think even
from our work and the kind of

clients we work with across a
range of ages, at the, you know,

in a lot of ways, the top of
their fields. It's fascinating

to see how people are
integrating the use of AI to

create a lot of slop, I'll
frank, and a lot of good

content. And I'm curious where
where we draw the line, you and

I, and because, I mean, I think
that's where that's where the

discussion is, is where we each
personally and individually and

as a company or as an
organization, or as a society

draw the lines. You know, what
are we gonna allow companies to

do? Right?

And and some companies, you
know, when it talks about, you

know, children and graphics and
things like that. Where's the

line, right, between Europe and
The United States and this and

that? And and and and there are
a lot of lines that society has,

and then there are lines that we
personally have. And I wouldn't

do this, and I wouldn't do that.
And a lot of our clients are

generating content that I
personally wouldn't put out, or

they're or they're saying, look
at the thing I just designed,

and I'll say, yeah.

I can see that that's all AI.
But they're checking the box in

their mind from, you know, 1995
or 2015 of the thing that

they've now been able to achieve
with the help of AI. And that's

also cool in a way.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. I mean, in
our industry, I guess, the line

seems very gray and hard to draw
in my opinion because I I think

a lot of the problem with Slop
just in the sort of content

space, content generating space.
The thing that's missing is,

like, almost like a soul, I
think, to the work. I mean,

there's a whole array or
spectrum of how slop sloppy slop

can be, I think. But starting
at, like, you know, the

sloppiest end, there's a lot of
junk out there that is really

soulless, clearly not read by
the person who generated it.

But, yeah, the the there's a
weird gray line somewhere in the

middle that seems pretty wide,
and it's like, did you use did

you do the thinking yourself?
Did you sit with problems? Did

you come up with the solutions
on your own? I I think a lot of

time, you can just see when
there's, like, a lack of the

creator's struggle or passion in
the outputs. But, I mean, it

would be a pretty easy thing to
lie about, I guess, if if you

really wanted to.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: And and you
said our industry, and I'll I'll

drill down a little more on that
because I think, you can split

industry in such different ways
now. When you look at I forget

who said it, but you you can
look at an individual human

being as as a publisher now. So
you you look at a a famous

podcaster or some famous
authors. If they have massive

followings, they are a media
company or even, you know, a

Taylor Swift or, you know,
musicians like that. They are

the company.

And I think if you look at
industries and then you go

crossways, it's like we used to
say there was the industry of

book publishing, and there was
the industry of social media

marketing or marketing writ
large. And what you're saying is

a different thing, which is the
industry of content creation

maybe split by individual or,
you know, split by intention.

And I think that's that's part
of the challenge here is when we

go into, like, the hey boomer
style, categorization of

content, that's a different
thing. So then I could say book

industry. Yeah.

Everything is is changing
because every every boomer and

every influencer is now writing
their own book, and they're all

terrible. They're all AI slop.
Except for a few exceptions, but

you ain't gonna find them
because the AI slop is so

overwhelming. How are you
supposed to find the good book?

You can't trust the main
publishers, can you?

You know? And so it's yeah. And
that's just book industry.

Aleck McCathie: It's it's funny
you push back on that because I

didn't even realize, you know,
you're right. I do think about

content creation as an industry
now. There's no real difference

between a book or a LinkedIn
post for the people who are

making it because there's just
zero friction in publishing your

ideas. And I think that's part
of what makes it so overwhelming

because it used to be an effort
to make a book. Like, you know,

if you're working with a
traditional ghostwriter, it

could be like a multiple year
long process.

You get kicked in the shins. You
get challenged. You have to

think about your ideas and
ruminate on them maybe for days.

Even in making a social media
post before AI, like, you know,

there's not a lot of people who
can just sort of stream of

conscious spit out really well
articulated LinkedIn posts in,

you know, a minute or two.
Right?

I think a lot of thought went
behind how you represent

yourself and how your content
represents you. Now the same

prompt that could create a
LinkedIn post could create a

book. So it's kind of just a big
amalgamous industry in my mind,

I guess.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yep. And I I
think, the slice you just

created, you and I are aligned.
We do work that, together and

with a lot of clients, it makes
sense that we see things

similarly. And the idea is
supreme. In my mind, the idea is

everything.

And that's not necessarily how
people think. I think people

think of a book as something
very different than a LinkedIn

post, where which which you just
sort of linked together. But I I

don't see that. I see the idea
as supreme. And if you see an

idea as supreme, you will look
at AI in a different way.

And what's interesting is what's
the definition of AI Slop? It's,

my opinion, is AI generated
material that does not have a

human idea or a human generated
idea at this moment, right, in

that article. Like, it is it's
derived from human ideas, or

it's it's maybe searching around
like a pig in in in, Slop for

that for that idea, but just one
in a thousand hits it. Whereas a

human idea from a subject matter
expert: Boom! Turn it into a

book?

Easy. Right? Turn it into a
speech? Sure. An AI can do a lot

of that work, but what's funny
is it's almost like an AI

sandwich.

You've got a human idea on the
top and then you've got your AI

marshmallow fluff in the middle,
and then you've to have a human

executing on the bottom, which
means fix up the book or deliver

the speech, or train the speech,
or, you know, all that stuff. So

it's almost like you can use AI,
but AI on stage with a fake

voice isn't the same as seeing a
charismatic human being on stage

at this point. Yeah.

Aleck McCathie: Fully agree. And
I do think that, you know, it's

not just a product of AI
development or, you know, people

being more careless. I think
that a lot of the industry

behind content has shift shifted
sort of, away from quality

matters to volume matters. You
know, tons of people would tell

you that you must post one
LinkedIn post per day or you

must, you know, post one short
video per day in order to keep

yourself relevant in the
algorithm. And, I guess a lot of

that sort of, like, algorithmic
drive from the platforms is is

what motivates people to push
out volume without soul.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Love that. I
love it because now I my brain

just started doing I I saw I
know I did this in the last

episode, but I saw in my mind
this I'm a vegetarian myself,

but I I've seen videos of meat
grinders that turn out the the

the the stuff, and all of a
sudden my brain just started

seeing that grinder, just
grinding this material. It

doesn't matter what's in there.
Just throw some stuff in there,

see what comes out the other
end. What I what I think is

different this is gonna this is
gonna get even weirder.

The difference between that and
a good soup or a gumbo or a

right? Throw everything in a a
stone soup, a big pot,

everything together. There's a
difference because you can see

the eyeball. You can see the the
the hand of the little the poor

little crustacean that you
killed. You can see all that

stuff, the vegetables.

Right? The okra. And in the
other one, all you see is this

just, like, pink stuff. Right?
And you eat the pink stuff, you

don't know what's in it.

And, I yeah. I I'm not sure what
I just said, so you can clean up

that mess.

Aleck McCathie: I think I get
it. Like, there's intention

behind the soup. You know, you
maybe you're following a recipe.

Maybe you thought this week I
want it to be more chunky or

potatoey or something. Whatever
it might be.

Like, it it comes from the soul
of somebody who has made it many

times and adjusted the recipe
over time and thought and

ruminated over how it tastes and
how to perfect it, which is

what's missing from, I think,
Slop content, you know. The the

paste or the grinded meat that's
you can't identify what it is.

The thought or the idea might be
so far removed from it. You

know, a lot of these LinkedIn
posts from people who, you know,

have their own sort of preachy,
coachy sort of platitudes. It

just it seems soulless.

Like, there were like, how long
ago did you create the editorial

calendar where you came up with
the three ideas that made your

last 80 LinkedIn posts? Know.
Liked it.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. And
and, just listening to you

speak, you said ruminate twice
in this episode, maybe more. I

think I only caught twice. And
each time, I loved it, and it

makes me wanna go, you know,
search on AI or on the Internet

for, like, etymology of
ruminate. Because it it sounds

like, you know, sounds like, you
know, throw something around in

your brain, it's almost like,
did that come from cows?

Like, what are we where is the
origin of ruminate? And I and

that word, if you put that into
AI at the top of a funnel, at

the top of a content creation,
it will come out with some great

ruminate stuff. You can put it
into your, you know, what is it,

the the Google the podcast
creator thing, right, on

Notebook AI or NotebookLM, and
and you could say, ruminate. And

then all of a sudden, two people
will be chatting about ruminate.

You know, and if you talk about
the this soup concept, the whole

podcast episode would be about
ruminating and about the soup.

But AI isn't gonna come up with
that those the wacky word, the

crunchy word, and the strange
concept. It's not it might, but

doubtful. And that's and that's
what I think the great thing

about humanness is, out of all
this. And then what what else

what is also funny is if you
what what do you do with a pink

soup when you have it? Can you
do something with for example,

this is something that you and I
specialize in because it's a

little weird.

What do you do with a pink slop
book? Someone generates this

book, this just pink slop. You
and I can look at it and say,

hey, let me let me see. Let me
see. Can we can we do anything

with this?

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. Sometimes
easier than other times, but if

you can identify the idea or at
least speak to the person who

generated the slop to figure out
what their idea was, there's

certainly ways that you can, you
know, add the pieces of potato

and vegetable into the slop to
start making it into a stew or

something, I guess. But, yeah,
it it takes effort. And that's

you know, the part of your
marshmallow cookie thing that's

missing is the top and the
bottom where people think about

it and challenge it and, I
guess, try to pull more

humanness into the idea. So I we
have to create that top and

bottom piece to smush all the
slop together.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: It's gross
to talk about marshmallow and,

like, the the the meat thing.

Aleck McCathie: Pink slime.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Yeah. What I
think is interesting about what

you're saying is the it's almost
like there's a percentage game.

If if if I were an analytical
person, it'd be like, okay. This

is this is 73 slop. Yeah.

Exactly. It's almost like we're
in nutrition. We're in we're in

we're at a McDonald's or
something. We're saying 73% pink

slime is fine as long as we add
this much carrot and whatever

else. Right?

Or, like, the french fries, they
can taste this much like that

weird, like, meat salt flavor.
Right? As long as they they are

the best potatoes in the entire
planet and exactly the, you

know, the the longest, most
yellow, whatever. It's like,

what are your percentages of
real and and sort of, disgusting

and and AI like? So it's almost
like we're talking about the

fast food of words and content.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. That just
reminded me of the grossest

thing. Fast food and industrial
production in general, you know,

I've I've heard many times that
things like as simple as ground

coffee, there's like a certain
percent of like cockroach is

allowed to be in the mixture in
order for it to be able to get

shipped out and actually
consumed by people. And I think

a lot of other, like, mass
produced commodities have

similar sort of rules.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: It's and and
within every industry, it's a

different kind of, you know,
metaphorical cockroach. It's

like yeah. So that's
interesting. So my my tolerance

level within I was thinking
about this because we we talked

about music the other day. My
tolerance within music for AI is

actually kind of high right now.

But in a year, ask me again.
Because if hear some of these

tracks that people are using and
there's a ton of AI in there,

and you're like, oh, there's a
symphony orchestra in there, and

oh, where did that come from?
It's novel and interesting for

now, but where will it be in
twelve months? It's similar in

some of books we're reading that
are written by people with AI.

We're seeing these flourishes
that are like, Wow, that's

really good writing, or That's
really intense.

Then you see it four times and
you think, oh, I see what's

happening now. I'm not sure how
to name that, but there's

there's, something.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. I'm not
sure how to name that either,

but there's certainly I I think
I refer to it most often as as

seeing, like, the the signal
through the noise. And I mean,

occasionally, the signal is
maybe the idea that shows up and

or the profound thought that
must have been injected into the

prompt that created the content.
But the noise is that sort of

classic AI syntax, the triplets
every time you're describing

something, the you know, just
the whole way that a paragraph

can be formed. I think that it
just from dealing with so many

clients who are bringing us
their AI generated work, I've

kind of gotten, like, a sixth
sense for just seeing that it's

generated by AI immediately.

But that doesn't mean it's
always bad.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: So I'm
excited to start, in the coming

weeks, start talking with people
about how they use AI and how

they see, outside the box or how
how this this huge set of tools

is opening up their minds. And
I've even seen in in the last

few weeks the conversations I've
had with people where one guy

said it was like he's in grad
school again because he's

relearning everything. Exactly.
There's another person who

redesigned her entire practice
around the things she was able

to vibe code herself. And it's
like these these experts and

these individuals who are who
are already so smart, and now

they're running with this set of
tools because it enables them to

move faster.

I find that fascinating, and
it's equally maybe not equally

prevalent. Maybe it's one person
in five, and the other four out

of five think they're, think
they're onto something, which

which is hard for me to see
sometimes because I they they

it's, when they think they're
onto something really special

and, they might be one out of a
a 100 people doing that same

thing. So maybe hard to reckon,
but where do you think things

are going?

Aleck McCathie: I mean, for
those people who think they have

something, you know, I think
that the most basic education

would be a tool that helps them
figure out like, you know, I can

tell when somebody's excited
that they finally have a tool

that will help them articulate
what's in their head, But not

understanding how the outputs
might look sloppy is a problem.

And I think that basic education
could probably help with a lot

of that. But the way I see
things going, I'm scared. Like,

you know, you said ask me about
music in a year. Ask us about

content in six months.

Ask us about art design in a
couple months. Like, it's a a

video now. There's a lot of
videos I've seen where if I

didn't know that it was AI, if
the if if it wasn't, like, said

this is an AI video, I don't
know if I would know. I don't

know if I have the tools or the
ability to find the tools to

scan it and figure it out. So,
uncertainty is where I think

we're going because I it's
already difficult for me to tell

and I've been sort of inundated
with AI for many months now, if

not longer.

I I guess I'm kind of waiting
for how long it'll be until I

just don't know what's going
on anymore.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: So I'll I'll close on my side by

thinking back to when I was a
kid. It was only on television

that they had those doors that
open when you walk towards them.

That was, like, star that was
Star Trek, and it was like,

woah. The door will open
automatically.

And now it's, like, it's
everywhere. Right? I think we

forget how fast we innovate as
humans, and I think the the part

of the terror here is like, you
know, my great grandmother never

wanted to drive, and so she
didn't because she'd grown up

with horses in the late eighteen
hundreds and was on a farm and

everything else. She never had
to drive. She was in a small

town.

She never did. And that's the
it's like this, future shock

that happens. And right now,
it's like, get on get on the

boat and figure out how this
thing works, and let's go. And

so I I think we're in a I I am
afraid about the future, but I'm

also super excited about it. I
think I think we're both there.

I would say my fears are not
around the software itself, but

around the humans, so we gotta
figure out how to regulation

isn't the right word because
it's too slow, but how to how to

have checkers out there figuring
out what people are doing in the

dark corners and how to, you
know, how do we navigate it? How

do we how do we, yeah, how do we
protect ourselves?

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. And maybe
we're already too far gone for

that. Who knows?

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Could be.
And and I hear I hear the dogs

barking in the background over
there. I think the world without

us humans, I don't know. Would
dogs still be, like would would

dogs be better off without us,
or would they be really, really

lonely?

Aleck McCathie: That's a good
question. I've I I I'm sure that

they would be able to fend for
themselves to some degree, but I

wonder if, like

Dr. Kent Gustavson: Your dog
could fend for itself?

Aleck McCathie: Well, she spends
all day outside hunting for bugs

and and lizards and stuff, so
probably.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: It might might
be. So say some dogs some dogs

could defend them, like, could
fend for themselves. The rest

would be like, alright. It's
it's that's it. Interesting.

So I guess we should pull the
plug, while speaking about the

the demise of the human race. I
didn't think we'd go negative.

Do you have any positive
thoughts?

Aleck McCathie: Oh, I don't
know. There there is positive

things happening. As as I think
we mentioned last week, there

are regulatory bodies or
assessors that are being

implemented. So, I I I do think
that there's hope for some

positive trajectory in where
we're going. And in the

meantime, I mean, everyone
should just enjoy these new

tools.

If you have like a thought or an
idea or something that you wanna

get out of your head and it's
better time than ever to sort of

work with these tools to figure
out ways to articulate yourself

and learn how to use them in a
way that is not going to

generate a slop. It doesn't take
much effort. It just takes care,

I think.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: That's
great. That really reminds me of

the opening scene of the, the
first Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

book where the the world's about
to end, and they're sitting at a

bar just kind of relaxing. And I
forget, was it the alien

overlord that said, oh, just
enjoy yourselves? Maybe that's

just in my head, my remembering
of it. But I would say, if the

end is coming, enjoy the next
three years.

Aleck McCathie: Yeah. Good
point. Agree.

Dr. Kent Gustavson: And a lot of
AI tools that you can experiment

around with. Alright. Let's pull
the plug.

Aleck McCathie: Sounds good.

Dr. Kent Gustavson:
Podcaststhatmatter.org